Michigan State University’s Board of Trustees had a turbulent and busy year in 2023.
The board hired a new president and approved the release of thousands of documents tied to the Larry Nassar sex abuse scandal.
It also contended with the fallout out of the Feb. 13 mass shooting on campus, several high-profile investigations tied to ethics concerns and dealt with infighting among trustees.
WKAR's Sophia Saliby spoke with board chair Rema Vassar about those big stories in 2023 and her hopes for 2024.
Interview Highlights
On why the board voted in December to release the Nassar documents instead of earlier in the year
There were a few outstanding lawsuits that were settled. And so at that point, there really wasn't a viable reason to continue to withhold the documents from the Attorney General's office as they requested them. You know, there were other big events happening at the time between April and now, presidential search was well underway. There were lots of changes being made to our structure, the way that we do business, the board itself. And so, I think December was where we landed with all the dust settling and a clear vision on transparency and accountability.
On a report unable to find the source of an alleged leak of details about the university's investigation into former football coach Mel Tucker
In terms of the board, I said from the beginning and I remain steadfast in that, thought that no one on the board would have leaked, in any capacity, the identity of Brenda Tracy or anyone involved in any Title IX investigation. The board has been, if you look at our record, committed to the fidelity of Title IX processes, the integrity of that office and to the improvement of it.
On her outlook on working with incoming president Kevin Guskiewicz
I have high hopes. I'm so looking forward to Kevin Guskiewicz coming and working with the board. I think the board is excited, but I think the campus is excited about this. The board made some commitments around our governance, right? We decided to take an unprecedented look at the way that we govern and to come up with eight steps that align with and support the university's code of ethics. And they're effective immediately. These strategic measures underscores our commitment to transparency, integrity and responsibility.
Interview Transcript
Sophia Saliby: Michigan State University’s Board of Trustees had a tumultuous and busy year in 2023.
The board hired a new president and approved the release of thousands of documents tied to the Larry Nassar sex abuse scandal.
It also contended with several high-profile investigations tied to ethics concerns and dealt with infighting among trustees.
Rema Vassar is the board’s chair, and she joins me now. Thank you for being here.
Rema Vassar: Thank you so much for having me.
Saliby: How would you characterize your first year in leadership?
Vassar: First year, I would say as the chair at MSU has been eventful. I'm glad to be here, so we made it into 2024.
There are a lot of lessons and reflection that I need to unpack from last year from the very beginning to the very end, but I'm glad to be here. So, I'm looking forward to the next year of my tenure as the chair.
Saliby: Can you talk about what went into the board finally voting to release that thousands of documents related to the Larry Nassar sex abuse scandal after years of inaction? This happened in December, so very, very recently.
Vassar: A commitment to transparency, when I decided to take a leadership role on the board, when I decided that maybe that's what I wanted to do, I ran on transparency and accountability. And if you think about this last year, that's mostly what our board was committed to.
We released reports without much ado, and it was time, at that point, to do what five of us committed to do during the times that we ran for these positions which was to release these documents. I'm glad that we were able to get that done.
It was necessary and a long overdue step for the healing of survivors and respecting their wishes. The MSU be community deserves to know what happened years ago, so nothing like that ever happens again.
It was necessary and a long overdue step for the healing of survivors and respecting their wishes. The MSU be community deserves to know what happened years ago, so nothing like that ever happens again. It was an intense moment.
I think the intensity was heightened with having Trustee [Dennis] Denno and I in the room when that vote was taken with survivors. It was one of the highlights of 2023 with my work on the board.
Saliby: Earlier in 2023, there was a moment where we thought the board would take that vote, andthere was a decision not to and then obviously, we moved to December where the trustees approved it. Can you talk about what changed between those months?
Vassar: There were a few outstanding lawsuits that were settled. And so at that point, there really wasn't a viable reason to continue to withhold the documents from the Attorney General's office as they requested them. You know, there were other big events happening at the time between April and now, presidential search was well underway. There were lots of changes being made to our structure, the way that we do business, the board itself.
And so, I think December was where we landed with all the dust settling and a clear vision on transparency and accountability. Let's release them now.
Saliby: Do you have an estimate on when those documents will actually be released and available?
Vassar: No, and I'm not sure what you mean by available, but, to be very clear, they'll go to the Attorney General's office, and what happens to those documents afterwards is up tothe Attorney General.
Saliby: The university recently released the results ofan investigation looking into an alleged leak of the sexual harassment claims made againstformer football coach Mel Tucker by activist Brenda Tracy.
This was a big story last year. The report failed to identify the source of the potential leak citing a lack of evidence and an unwillingness by some individuals to fully participate. Do you think this finding is going to hurt the campus community's trust in the board because it's inconclusive?
In terms of the board, I said from the beginning and I remain steadfast in that, thought that no one on the board would have leaked, in any capacity, the identity of Brenda Tracy or anyone involved in any Title IX investigation.
Vassar: I saw it as conclusive. In terms of the board, I said from the beginning and I remain steadfast in that, thought that no one on the board would have leaked, in any capacity, the identity of Brenda Tracy or anyone involved in any Title IX investigation. The board has been, if you look at our record, committed to the fidelity of Title IX processes, the integrity of that office and to the improvement of it.
And so, knowing what I know to be true around how we feel about Title IX and how seriously we take our relationship violence and sexual misconduct allegations, I don't believe anyone on the board would have ever leaked that. The other part is that we didn't know, like any other investigation, we're not meddling. We don't want to know about details. We don't want to know the folks who have made any allegations. And we don't usually know who's accused.
So, the board was never briefed on Brenda Tracy's name or the details of the OIE (Office of Institutional Equity) investigation in and of itself. So, I don't think that given our track record and given the report of [law firm] Jones Day that there should be a weakening. We participated fully in this investigation, more so than anyone else in the investigation. So, I think it was a full exoneration. That's how I looked at that Jones Day report.
Saliby: I know you can't speak for your fellow trustees, but there was a note in that report that there were certain things that Trustee Dennis Denno did not cooperate with and that he may have had information regarding maybe not a leak, but related to this Title IX investigation.
Does that completely exonerate everyone on the board? If there's that question, still?
Vassar: I think what the report did suggest was that he was not the leak. Alright, so the board still was not the leak whether or not he participated in ways that Jones Day wanted him to. You know, he could speak for himself, but at the end, it was clear that he also was not a leak.
Saliby: Your colleague Trustee Brianna Scott accused you in the fall ofbullying and violating ethics policies. She also asked you to step down. What is your working relationship with her and other trustees now who have called for your resignation?
I think bullies are cowards. So, I think if anyone spends any time with me, they would know that I'm not a coward. I try to run toward fear not away from it.
Vassar: Yeah, so my working relationship is always collegial. I, wholly and fully, reject any talk of me being a bully. I think that's coded language, but I also think that it's dangerous language and damaging in different ways, but certainly wouldn't ascribe to me. I think bullies are cowards. So, I think if anyone spends any time with me, they would know that I'm not a coward. I try to run toward fear not away from it.
So, the bullying part is pretty troubling. I'm still very hurt by that. I'm hurt by that assertion knowing that it's a lie, right, knowing that that's a fabrication. Because the other part that people would know about me is that I'm generally a happy person, and I'm super careful to be kind and to lead from a space of love.
If you spend any time with me, I'm collegial, collaborative, cooperative. I try to be encouraging. And I also tell the truth, I think that's a part of love. And so, sometimes the truth hurts. I do understand that it's tough sometimes to take the truth. And it's sometimes difficult for people to take accountability.
Both of those things, the truth and accountability, transparency, accountability and truth, I think are part of who I am fundamentally, that's not bullying. That's how I would characterize that relationship, and that's how I plan to move forward.
Saliby: An external firm is investigating some of those allegations against you from Trustee Scott regarding potential breaches of university policy regarding ethics.
That includes alleged interference with university administration and releasing university documents without the approval of other trustees. Is that something where you would step down if a firm finds you violated MSU rules?
Vassar: No, I did not violate any rules. There's no policy that I've broken. There's nothing that can be pointed to that could say, "Oh, yes, Rema, you violated this, and now you're in big trouble." Now, I will say that investigation is comprehensive, that I'm not the only person under investigation.
I did not violate any rules. There's no policy that I've broken. There's nothing that can be pointed to that could say, "Oh, yes, Rema, you violated this, and now you're in big trouble."
What I will also say is that I think the trustees on the board currently and myself adhere to our codes of ethics in the best ways that we know possible. I would say that no one, well, I would say that most of the trustees on the board do not like willfully and knowingly violate policies. We all come here to do a good job for MSU. We all come to try to make sure that we are answering to the folks who have put us here and advancing the university.
Saliby: You did correct yourself just now going from all the trustees to some of the trustees. Are there people that you work with on the board that you don't fully trust?
I mean, maybe you guys all have the same goal in mind of making the university better, but it sounds like you don't agree with maybe the ways that everybody thinks that should happen.
Vassar: So, those are two different questions. Do I trust everyone on the board? Absolutely. I do. I trust everyone on the board. I trust them to show up how they are, who they are, right? So, I trust them.
The second piece was do I disagree with some of the ways that they go about ensuring their goals to further MSU? Right, so I think diversity is the strength of the board. We're not always supposed to agree where I think disagreement and healthy conflict is a sign of a functioning board.
Groupthink, I think is dangerous. If we all agreed all the time, then what would be the need to have a board? Like that just doesn't make sense to me.
So, do I disagree with board members? Yes. And I disagree and still like them and still love them, right, like that doesn't mean that I don't like them. I disagree because we come from diverse experiences, skillsets, mindsets and backgrounds. And that should happen, the disagreement should result in a conflict that makes a better decision for us as a board.
Saliby: Looking ahead, what are your hopes for the board's relationship with incoming president Kevin Guskiewicz?
I'm so looking forward to Kevin Guskiewicz coming and working with the board. I think the board is excited, but I think the campus is excited about this.
Vassar: High! The hopes are high. I have high hopes. I'm so looking forward to Kevin Guskiewicz coming and working with the board. I think the board is excited, but I think the campus is excited about this.
The board made some commitments around our governance, right? We decided to take an unprecedented look at the way that we govern and to come up with eight steps that align with and support the university's code of ethics. And they're effective immediately. These strategic measures underscores our commitment to transparency, integrity and responsibility.
But it also speaks to the optimism of the future and working with President-elect Guskiewicz toward our strategic plans and our goals that are outlined in those plans. So, I think when we demonstrated our commitment to those governing principles, we also demonstrated our commitment to working together with Dr. Guskiewicz for the best of the university, right?
We have a lot to do. We have a continual focus on communicating and knowing the role of the board, as well as a commitment to professional development that's been ongoing that will continue as the board. We want to be the best board for such a time as this.
We have a lot of new happening in 2024. And we want more, more transparency, more accountability, more success in our teaching, in our research, and we want more leadership and we're going to get that with our new president. We're all excited.
Saliby: Rema Vassar is the chair of the MSU Board of Trustees. Thank you for joining me.
Vassar: Oh, thank you for having me.
This conversation has been edited for clarity and conciseness.
