One Michigan State University doctoral student is highlighting the connections between race, nature and culture with her research.
Specifically, the history that African Americans have with the country’s forests. Jasmine Brown has been recognized by the university and several national groups for her work.
WKAR's Sophia Saliby spoke with her at Albert A. White Memorial Park in East Lansing to talk more about how she got into forestry and the greater implications of her studies.
Interview Highlights
On how her interest in trees started
I was in the eighth grade. I was walking home from school, and I noticed that my favorite tree in front of my mother's house had been cut down after a lightning storm. All I saw was a stump and a pile of sawdust. And I started asking my mother questions about what happens to trees when they're no longer standing. Where do they go? Who uses them? And she didn't have answers for me, but she encouraged me to continue pursuing my interest in nature.
On how outdoor spaces can become more accessible
Interpretive guides, making sure that you're not overlooking the history of groups that were there that are still there, and they have relationships with that place, but also considering the complexity of what it means to attend to different racial, ethnic and social identities.
On how she thinks about trees now
I remember being trained to think about trees in a very measurement way. So how big is that tree? How tall is that tree? How straight is that tree? How much money is that tree worth? Can you identify the name of that tree? And now I find myself asking more questions such as: What is that tree connected to? What does that truly mean to someone? What does that tree signify to people who look like me? I think more broadly, I guess, in terms of creativity, art and connectedness when I think about trees.
Interview Transcript
Sophia Saliby: One Michigan State University doctoral student is highlighting the connections between race, nature and culture with her research.
Specifically, the history that African Americans have with the country’s forests. Jasmine Brown has been recognized by the university and several national groups for her work.
I spoke with her at Albert A. White Memorial Park in East Lansing to talk more about how she got into forestry and the greater implications of her studies. I started by asking Jasmine when she first started becoming curious about trees and forests.
Brown: I was in the eighth grade. I was walking home from school, and I noticed that my favorite tree in front of my mother's house had been cut down after a lightning storm. All I saw was a stump and a pile of sawdust. And I started asking my mother questions about what happens to trees when they're no longer standing.
I started asking my mother questions about what happens to trees when they're no longer standing. Where do they go? Who uses them? And she didn't have answers for me, but she encouraged me to continue pursuing my interest in nature.
Where do they go? Who uses them? And she didn't have answers for me, but she encouraged me to continue pursuing my interest in nature.
She allowed me to have a vegetable garden. She let me recycle and store my compost in the freezer. So, I definitely credit my mother for encouraging my passion for nature that I have today.
Saliby: Now, as a researcher, what does it mean for you to study forestry? Because it's not like timber and lumber. It's more than that.
Brown: In a lot of ways, it definitely is still connected to timber and lumber only when you think about where forest products come from and who did the work, to garner, to foster those forest products, to grow those trees to manage and care for that land.
It's interesting to think about the connection between people and forests, specifically African Americans in forests only because that connection is often overlooked or misrepresented.
And I'm really, really excited to shed light on the enduring histories African Americans have with forests and the forestry profession.
Saliby: Can you talk about what people might not know about the history between African Americans and forests? What's been overlooked?
Brown: When I think about the connections between African Americans and forests, the main thing that comes to mind is the role of complexity. It's not a simple narrative. It's not just a stereotype that African Americans are afraid of forests and that African Americans are disconnected from nature.
It's much deeper than that. We have to consider what it meant for African Americans to be historical stewards of lands that they did not own and were forced to work upon. But then also what it meant to move through forests in secrecy, along the Underground Railroad to even have different uses, medicinal uses and healing qualities that were attributed to trees.
The idea that our connection to nature is not simple, it can't just simply be framed by fear. It also has to consider the African Americans found places of worship and healing and escape in forests, in the midst of racial trauma, in the midst of racial violence and those threats. And those stories are still alive today.
Saliby: When we were scheduling this interview, I asked you to pick a forest or park to talk in. Can you tell me why you chose this place? Like, we have ducks in the background that our listeners can't see, but I feel like I can hear. But we're in a park right now.
Brown: I am originally from Bridgeport, Connecticut, and I moved to East Lansing, Michigan in 2020 in the height of the pandemic to start my doctoral studies. And I remember feeling very disconnected from this place.
So, I had just started simply visiting different hiking trails and nature parks, and this was one of the first ones that I went to, so this place means a lot to me. It connects me to Michigan. It connects me to East Lansing.
Saliby: And how are you working to encourage people in your community, people of color, African Americans, to reconnect with forests and nature and kind of ... jump over those stereotypes?
African Americans are not a monolith. We don't all have the same exact perspectives and connections to forests.
Brown: Thinking about nature more broadly. So, it doesn't have to only be from a science perspective or from a management perspective. Someone can be passionate about trees simply because they're beautiful or simply be just because they have one in their yard or there's one on their street.
I try to consider nature from both rural and urban contexts. But also realizing that I can't assume that everyone looks at a forest the way that I do, or that every Black person sees trees the same way as [me]. African Americans are not a monolith.
We don't all have the same exact perspectives and connections to forests. So, trying to think broadly about it, either the regional or geographic differences within families within African American groups is a key part of my work.
Saliby: And how can park staff those who manage forests make these spaces more accessible on the other end of that conversation?
I find myself asking more questions such as: What is that tree connected to? What does that truly mean to someone? What does that tree signify to people who look like me?
Brown: Connecting with local communities is really important. I think about all the opportunities that I have in forestry or just something as simple as going on a nature hike that I know I would not have known if I wasn't adventurous, if I didn't just simply explore, take the time to get lost.
And that's hard to explain sometimes even to my own family members who will want to visit a trail and there is no map or it's not accessible or they can't scan a QR code on their phone, for example, to figure out how to get there. Interpretive guides, making sure that you're not overlooking the history of groups that were there that are still there, and they have relationships with that place, but also considering the complexity of what it means to attend to different racial, ethnic and social identities.
Saliby: And I guess I'll end with kind of a personal question for you. You brought up how the way you see forests might be different how every other person see forests, so I guess how do you, when you're walking in the woods, what do you see? What do you notice? What's important to you?
Brown: I would say it's changed over time. I remember being trained to think about trees in a very measurement way. So how big is that tree? How tall is that tree? How straight is that tree? How much money is that tree worth? Can you identify the name of that tree?
And now I find myself asking more questions such as: What is that tree connected to? What does that truly mean to someone? What does that tree signify to people who look like me? I think more broadly, I guess, in terms of creativity, art and connectedness when I think about trees.
Saliby: Jasmine Brown is a doctoral student in the Michigan State University Department of Forestry. We've been speaking at Albert A. White Memorial Park. Thank you for joining me.
Brown: Thank you for having me.
This conversation has been edited for clarity and conciseness.
