STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
We've called a member of Congress who's following this. Democratic Jim Himes of Connecticut is the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee and has been deeply involved in AI policy. Congressman, good morning.
JIM HIMES: Good morning.
INSKEEP: We just heard John Ruwitch give us the key line from the NVIDIA statement - no reason to believe that national security secrets were compromised. So that's what they say for now. You tell me - what is the scenario by which China would use one of its businesspeople close to Jensen Huang to gain some benefit?
HIMES: Sure, sure. So, I mean, let's start with the obvious point, but it's a critical context, which is that NVIDIA is the manufacturer of chips - very, very advanced chips - and, in fact, the only manufacturer of the most advanced chips that power the most powerful technology that humankind has ever developed. These are the frontier AI models, which, from a national security perspective, of course, can be used to hack into computers in ways we never imagined would be possible to create weapons - to craft bioweapons by creating viruses. I mean, I could go on. We know the usual concerns about artificial intelligence. But this is really the key ingredient for the creation and training of those frontier models.
So the obvious question is - given that we have - you know, depending on who you talk to, we have a, let's say, six-month lead in those frontier models over the Chinese, which we would like to maintain - is, did this relationship provide either the influence - there's really two categories of things that NVIDIA and, frankly, federal investigators should be looking at, which is was information conveyed about anything that might have been helpful to the Chinese? And anything could mean, you know, where they do the research and development on their cutting-edge chips to where the president of the United States is going to be at 11 in the morning when he's in Beijing.
And then there's questions of influence. You know, did this individual, Alice Huang, have some influence with Mr. Huang that could have done anything from, you know, created a deal that passed these chips to Singapore in a way that would have given the Chinese access to them? So really it's the categories of information and influence that these investigations need to be looking at. And we just - I was a little surprised by the NVIDIA statement because the - you know, it may be true that they don't have evidence, but that's not in any way exculpatory prior to the completion of an investigation.
INSKEEP: When you say that second category, influence, I guess we should mention that Jensen Huang's general policy - understandably, he sells chips - is that he's in favor of selling more and more chips to China. That's been the policy he's pursued.
HIMES: Sure. I mean, and this is sort of a classic potential conflict of interest, right? He wants to sell chips to China, and he has advocated for his right to do so, possibly against the interests of the United States. But also, if there is a romantic relationship - and most of us have been in romantic relationships - and you've got an overwhelming desire to - you know, to accommodate or to do good things for this individual with whom you have a romantic relationship. You know, that's a pretty obvious conflict of interest too.
INSKEEP: I want people to know you are the top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee. You go into this secure room from time to time. You get briefed on things from the intelligence agencies and so forth. Did you know anything about this relationship before the past few days when it was in the media?
HIMES: So we received - the Congress received no briefing on this until just yesterday, when there was what's known as a Gang of Eight briefing. This is the eight leaders of the House and the Senate, plus the leaders of the intelligence committees. We received a little bit of information. So, no, we have not been kept abreast of this issue.
INSKEEP: Do you feel you know how long the administration has been aware of this and allegedly sat on it?
HIMES: Yeah. I do know how long, and press reports that this was sort of surfaced in the spring are more or less correct. What I will tell you, though, is that there's still an immense number of unanswered questions from the standpoint of the Congress. One of them, of course, is why the hell didn't we get briefed on this earlier? But all sorts of unanswered questions. It's really not clear - to me, at least - it's not clear to me exactly what the relationship might have been between Alice Huang and the Chinese government. That needs to be understood. And also what information may have been conveyed or what influence applied.
INSKEEP: OK. We'll have to continue this conversation, then. Democratic Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut, who's on the House Intelligence Committee. Thanks so much for your time.
HIMES: Sure thing. Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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