Episode 4 explores the pivotal role of DJs in shaping Detroit techno. It highlights how figures like Jeff Mills, Ken Collier, and the Electrifying Mojo fostered community, creativity, and sonic experimentation. DJs are shown as cultural mediators—bridging generations, creating live experiences, and transforming dance floors into spaces of Afrofuturist possibility.
Host: Julian Chambliss. Featured Voices: Jeff Mills, Derek May, Mike Huckaby, Kevin Saunderson, John Collins, Stacey “Hotwaxx” Hale, Tobias C. van Veen, Reynaldo Anderson, Omar Meftah.
Presented by WKAR Public Media in partnership with MSU Museum at Michigan State University.
Supported in part by MSU Federal Credit Union.
Includes:
Jeff Mills - La plus Grande Légende de La Techno EVER | Konbini, 2019.
Detroit: The Blueprint Of Techno, 2011. Ken
Collier, DJ Set, Heaven (Detroit) - Part I, 2017.
African Drum Music, 2014.
Julian C. Chambliss and Tobias C Van Veen, “Interview of Afrofuturist Sound Scholar Tobias C. Van Veen,” Michigan State University Library, G. Robert Vincent Voice Library Collection: Voices of the Black Imaginary, June 2021.
Julian C. Chambliss, “Interview of Erik Steinskog of the University of Copenhagen,” Michigan State University Library, G. Robert Vincent Voice Library Collection: Voices of the Black Imaginary, October 24, 2020.
Transcript
Again, you know, I mean, you, you, you kind of have this support system in the city of Detroit where everybody's interested in music. So a turntable is something that maybe if you don't have, your neighbor has, or if someone else has. And you just borrow it or you, you know, you go and play around with it. Uh, I started using a turntable maybe, uh, 13 to 12, 13, 14 years old.
That was Jeff Mills, also known as the Wizard Mills. Started his career in the 1980s, DJing on the radio and eventually helping to establish underground resistance.
Mills is a perfect example of the s importance of the dj. That's what this episode's about. Episode four, the dj, inventor, innovator, instigator, the whole history of, uh, Detroit techno started, uh, I, I, I, I suppose you could say from, um, Kevin Sons and Juan Atkinson, Derrick May, I think, uh, we were like way ahead of our time. Totally. But like 10, 15 years, Juan had this vision of. What he thought the future was all about. What he thought life itself should be projected as in the future.
And he, he, we became friends and it, it was just, it was his way of thinking, you know? And it was really fast forward and it was interesting and it was something we had never, never seen before in our lives, man. So we all went to high school together. Me, Juan, and Derek. Derek learned from Juan, basically, which, um, I think started him in 70, maybe 79.
With, uh, a group called Cybertron, that clip from Detroit, the Blueprint of techno, a documentary commissioned by the Canadian Music Channel, MuchMusic in 1998 is a perfect way to start this episode. Documentary offered an overview of the rises of importance of techno at that moment in time. The documentary captures the voices of figures like, like Hoby, Juan Atkins, Derek May, and Kevin Anderson, among others.
In some ways, the story articulated Den has not evolved much in the 27 years since it aired. In that story. The originators, Atkins, me and Anderson are central figures, experimenting and creating what comes to be known as techno. While as true, those figures are central, one of the ideas that drives our new exhibition Techno The Rise of Detroit Machine Music, is that there is more to that story.
One person who we don't talk about a lot views, Eddie folks who was definitely there at the beginning. I kind of feel that Eddie folks should be included somewhere. 'cause he is from the beginning as well. And some people consider him the fourth founder. That was John Collins, the community curator for techno.
The Rise of the Choice Machine Music and Curator of Exhibit 3000. The techno museum founded in Detroit. There was an interplay between culture and practice happening in Detroit with DJs on the airways and in the clubs creating the music and culture that moved techno forward. In that story. The work of the DJ working in the radio station is pivotal, as Stacey HW Hale explains, we were number seven in the market overall in the country.
The radio was so much fun. It was, it was competitive. We knew who the DJs were on the radio Mojo being the, the, the rebel. You know, I, I can, I can't think, and I don't think it's ever happened and if it did, I, maybe I just don't have the knowledge. But who can stop a complete city and have everybody go outside and turn on the porch light?
'cause he said so. We live and die by that. It's like, what? And not to mention that the music he played, 'cause it'd be music that you never heard before. Him and Prince were very good friends. So with him being so open like that, that in that opened up the world of techno being going to be able to be played.
And so you got to hear that. But we were the, again, a, a generation looking to be different. The difference that Hail alludes to is an important part of the SO geography created by the Detroit DJs working both on the airways and in the club. SKA is interested in Afrofuturism communities created by sound practice are important drivers of the ideology of futurity Central to the music.
Here, Tobias c. Van Veen talks about the importance of radio. I think radio remains a very potent, powerful force. Right up all the way through the 20th century. I encountered Afrofuturism in a way, sonically through late night radio. It was through DJs playing Detroit techno late night on college radio in Vancouver, which is a narrative that actually goes back decades of white kids hearing black music on the radio and just hearing the sound.
This is a complicated narrative because you have plenty of white folk who like the sound but then can't deal with the black culture and black people and the love stops there. So it's not necessarily like the sound is all the labor and sort of transforms you, but it can lead you there. It can have a very potent force.
It definitely led me there with like the real challenge. It Dubais been being alluded to here. The factory made that clubs in Detroit became interracial spaces where the music of techno or the music will become techno is being celebrated. And during this space of time, what I liked the best about it, there was also an experimental in terms of an mc, and the DJ really seemed to manage people's emotions better than they do now.
This is Renado Amston talking about the way that the DJ act as the kind of mediator creating community through their work in the club. Yeah, we might have some rap music, but uh, after the end of the slow drag piece, then they start amping it up with techno as you, the closer you got into midnight. So it's kind like you might start out a party with run DMC and then they slow it down a little bit to maybe, so you dance to some Whitney Houston.
But then right around 11 to 12 o'clock last night, they gonna amp it up with some Detroit techno. So back then, the DJ and the mc were almost like a preacher and the choir director managing the emotions of a church, you know, for a three to four hour period. They understood tempo tone, what sound was needed for certain types of movement.
Because it was about creating an experience and in the context of this tonal experience of sound, there was also some intimacy that would take place. Okay, so. The mc and the DJ would create a setting for all of this type of, whatever kind of intimacy you would characterize it to take place. So the music, what music was played, when it was played, how it was played, always set the scene for these cross-cultural connections that were creating space for people to form relationships.
A relationship being formed in Detroit mirror, a series of activities that are also taking place in Chicago.
These things inside soul control on.
As Stacey Hill explains, the definition of the sounds wasn't as clear cut as we might imagine at the beginning, but the interplay was crucial. Techno and house, those titles didn't exist yet, although they were clearly being played, but even we didn't know how to identify it. That falls back into we just wanna be underground, we wanna be different.
You think back in the seventies and eighties you couldn't go anywhere and just get that you had to go to a particular place to get that different, 'cause it wasn't played on the radio and it wasn't mainstream in the clubs. One of the things we tried to do while creating an exhibition is to understand who are the figures who were providing sort of guidance and as a bridge between previous generations of musical innovation and the emerging conversation around technology.
In particular, start with Ken Collier. Now, he wasn't the only one that was bridging that, that music as well, but he's focused on, because he made me the most popular person, you know, and there were other DJs, including myself, that was also doing that, including Stacey Hill, including, um, some other people.
You know, when I first saw him, I went and saw how it was done and I immediately, it, it was my sole decision when I decided to be a dj. It was him, Dwayne Bradley, Ronaldo White. And Morris Mitchell that I actually saw performing. This is Stacey Hill talking about Ken Collier, and they didn't have a clue. I, I was already into it, but from my own perspective, that wasn't that, I had no idea that two turntables and a mixture that you could mix, but I saw that and I made that decision right then that this is what I was gonna do.
As we researched the exhibition, it became clear that Calder's impact was profound, particularly as a figure bridging the gap between disco house and techno.
He developed his own style in that post disco era that arguably acknowledged the legacy of Mo Motel, but embraced the emerging technology and style of house as a resident DJ at Club Heaven. He also played a crucial role providing mentorship for new DJs, producers, and promoters in area the scene. We're on the dance circuit and with stuff would come out that would be just a twisted, a little bit different.
And I remember taking delight to Heaven one time. . And again, that was a different sound now, now that I would, I think of delight. Music is not house, it's not techno, it's not new wave. It's kind of a crash of all of it together and funk. And you know, what he did by way of club and bringing music to the underground is the same thing that Mojo did on the radio where he would play the B side to everything.
He put Jeff Mills on the radio, which. No, you know, he wasn't, he didn't have to be, uh, programmed as, you know, mainstream radio today where it's at. But these two people put it on the biggest platform that we had to put it on.
Recovery is a central tenet. And for futurism, can we understand how past innovators who have been overlooked can be reintegrated into the story? In the case of techno, John Collins reminds us that we can continue to la. The founding generation that we know well while also calling the attention to those names that we might have overlooked.
As with the founders of techno music, you know, we hear about why Kevin, Derek and Eddie, but there's also James Pennington. He did a lot of work on Good Life and Big Flood with Kevin Sanders with a lot of people don't know, you know? So like when you new the live. And Detroit was sort of like connective.
And we may have a track and call somebody, say, Hey Eddie, you know, what do you think about this? What do you know? Come listen, blah, blah, blah. So you, you're getting feedback and sometimes information or that you way wanna use. So it's like we're kind of like working together even though it's my track. But they will kind of help you or, uh, inspire you to, or you might like a suggestion that they have to.
Or your edit, add this, take this away. What do you think ultimately? That producer DJs making a incision, but we take other people's. The creative process at Techno's core depends on being created in real time by DJs at clubs, and more arts collaborations in the studio. It's live. I mean, it, it, it's live music.
That is Omar. Mel. The patches on the synthesizers and the drum sounds that they might be using might sound electronic or might be from a machine, but. At the end of the day, there's a person behind. John Collins expands on this idea that there is a relationship that's created. By the DJ in the live space where they're in communication with the crowd. It depends on the reaction from the crowd and the energy that is flowing from the crowd back to the crowd.
So that's not on the fly. That's creating as you go along. You have to form a connection with your crowd. I've seen up and coming and other people just playing tracks. It made no sense and confusing the crowd, that type of thing, which means they're not really connected. And I gave something you learn later, unless you go to a lot of DJ schools now.
They may tell you how you should connect with the crowd and let an organic flow occur, or even to the point where the, the crowd can move you in the direction of the next track you should play, but not the name of it. You watching the crowd, they're reacting, the music is grooming. They're like, okay, I gotta play this.
Or something similar. You know, just you get a feeling, but the name of that track is not there. But you have something that works. And to me, that's the best DJing you can take 'em on the musical journey reaction, the energy, how they're moving, what part of the track is really energizing them or enable them to really express how they're feeling on the dance floor.
As a dj. That's why you see some DJs are looking down all the time. They're not watching the crowd at all. You have to look up at what your crowd is doing because I've seen DJs lose dance floors. Wow. Because their heads are down, they're playing for themselves. They're not looking at what the people's doing, and they look up and everybody's gone or have your dance floor is gone.
And that's something that I think people learn over time. In the end, the experience that DJs created through their live performance are mirrored in many ways by the collaborative efforts that emerged in the studio creative culture that mal and define Detroit. A culture that learned from previous generations celebrating new ideas came together in the album these innovators started to produce in the studio.
I. Techno, the Rises of the Choice Machine Music Exhibition features a sound installation created by Underground Resistance, a fitting choice at the DIY aesthetic and celebration of local artists. At the core of that groups really depended on mutual support. Celebration of the local, as John College explains.
Let's, let's just take underground resistance. You know, we have, could be several DJs working on one track. People don't really know that, you know, or, or they've given, they work together collaborating or pre-production. It was more than one person, but, but it might be, let's just say if you are or you are a dj, it'll be DJing Julian's track, but other DJs may have contributed something.
So I think that works really, really well. And I think it also add to the longevity of music coming outta Detroit, techno music and house or more type of house. Because our music, music is timeless and a lot of tracks that were made in the eighties and nineties. Still to this day, I'm talking about Detroit.
You can still play in a club or a festival and people will go crazy. Then some of them have never heard it before either. 'cause they're, you know, a younger generation coming up, so it might be no music to them. But it's so good that it's accepted. All DJs and producers don't have that power.
As Omar Metha explains, creativity continues to define Detroit's DJ culture with experimentation and an awareness of diasporic roots central to the music.
Look at a lot of what Jeff Mills has been doing. He had that whole project with Tony Allen, , also rest in peace. , he was the drummer from Fela Kuti. , and that's straight up jazz music. Even if there is a drum machine getting programmed in there, you still have a bass player and a violinist and a guitar player and horn players.
, and even Deshaun Jones right now, , he's got the Urban Art Orchestra. , Deshaun Jones, I'm pretty sure is the one that wrote Timeline, which is like a super, super classic record. But I was mentioning this the other day on the B side of that record, which a lot of people have no idea is a four hero track and that's getting to like drum and bass , and broken beat from the United Kingdom, UK, so you were getting like these really intricate.
Almost like orchestral arrangements, but on top of , very hardcore, fast drum breaks that were like samples from the amen brother break, , for hero was super integral in, in the landscape of electronic music. And I really don't think a lot of people realize how closely affiliated they were with underground resistance.
Everyone knows about Goldie, the drum and bass guy, , from originally that collective metal heads. But, a lot of people don't really mention like Digo or Mark Mack, uh, in that conversation, even though, , you had these environments were super underground, really focused on the sound systems.
And then at that point, you're,, starting to get into like the sound class culture of like dub and like reggae from Jamaica, which is essentially where all of this. actually started, you know, uh, that's something I, I meant to mention yesterday, the idea of a DJ and an MC and a sound system and mixers and , how we overdub any recording and stuff that was, that was,, the scientist , and that was like Lee scratch Perry, , you had like a lot of stuff happening in Kingston, Jamaica, that eventually went to New York and then hip hop again, going back to that. So I think, , musicianship ,is very, embedded in how we even approach making electronic music. A lot of people think we're letting computers do most of the work, but we're actually telling the computer what to do.
The relationship between experimentation and creativity continues to define Detroit. The city remains a hub of innovation, as we shall see in our next episode. The creativity at the core of techno calls attention to speculative visions and transformative actions closely linked for futurism.
The machines at the core of the music are tools, but the visions driving those tools. Are engaged with deep concerns about culture, community, and things to come. Join me for episode five, world Building and Tech. If you wanna know more about the dynamic story of techno origins, seek out the 2022 documentary.
God said, give them drum machines. You find out more about the documentary@detroittechnomovie.com. You can also learn more by visiting Glimpse Detroit at glimpse detroit com. Glimpse Detroit is an interactive book that Recreates Glimpse Magazine, a publication dedicated to chronically the city's techno culture created by Billy Love Artifact from the Glimpse collection are crucial to our exhibition.
This podcast is presented by WKAR in collaboration with the MSU Museum. Thanks for listening.
