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WKAR's news team went in-depth this week, exploring the state of four malls in Mid-Michigan and their future as communities rethink how these retail spaces can be used.
But towns and cities across the state are dealing with the same issue of dying malls and new potential.
"Things have just changed a whole lot over the last 20 years, and I think there is this nostalgia of how we used to shop, even though we've all decided collectively we don't really want to shop that way anymore," said Amy Vansen, the editor of the magazine "Michigan Planner" which is published by the Michigan chapter of the American Planning Association.
The magazine’s most recent issue explores how retails spaces around the state are being transformed.
"Some of my earliest memories are going to Macomb Mall and getting an Orange Julius and a Hot Sam pretzel and sitting by the fountain," Vansen said.
She also remembers working for two summers at the Lakeside Mall in Sterling Heights. Vansen said she recently looked at pictures of the mall.
"It's like seeing somebody you know, who you haven't seen in 30 years, who's now got terrible cancer, and you're just like, 'Oh, my God, what happened?' You just feel terrible about it," she said.
But she says these sites, however sad, present an opportunity for developers and communities.
"The infrastructure, all that really expensive stuff, is already in the ground. So, you've got your storm water. You've got your sanitary. You've got your water. You have utilities," she said.
Her advice for municipal leaders is to not jump right into redevelopment when a mall or retail space becomes vacant.
"Take a minute to have some community engagement with the neighborhood and the community at large on what that space ought to be, so that when a developer does come along, you know exactly what the neighborhood is willing to tolerate."
Interview Highlights
On the challenges of transforming empty retail spaces
I think the challenge with it is really, as a community, is sitting down, and it can be hard when local government doesn't have the resources that it has had for a number of years for a lot of reasons, to be able to take a breath and sit down and figure out what as a neighborhood, as a community, does that space, what do we want it to look like?
On the opportunity these sites can present
The really great thing about these spaces is that the infrastructure, all that really expensive stuff, is already in the ground. So, you've got your storm water. You've got your sanitary. You've got your water. You have utilities. That is just so expensive if you're trying to go out beyond where there is that sort of thing. So, these are really ready-made sites for development potential. We've got the roads. There's probably a really big road next to it that can handle the traffic of most anything that is going to be put on this site. So, those are really the opportunities with these sites.
On one community that worked with a developer to make a space that worked for residents
Another example is in Waterford Township, Michigan. They really worked with a developer, a business owner that was going to work on a vacant Kmart site and wanted to work with the community and figure out what could work here. And so, they've divided up this Kmart into various businesses that are forward-facing. So, it's not something that's really sort of this big, hulking warehouse that used to be a more dynamic space, so it has that dynamic retail environment, forward-facing. But then, because it's such a large site, it can have some warehouse stuff that wholesale that isn't as forward-facing.
Interview Transcript
Sophia Saliby: WKAR's news team has gone in-depth, exploring the state of four malls in Mid-Michigan and their future as communities rethink how these retail spaces can be used.
But towns and cities across the state are dealing with the same issue of dying malls and new potential.
Amy Vansen is the editor of the magazine "Michigan Planner" which is published by the Michigan chapter of the American Planning Association. The magazine’s most recent issue explores how retails spaces around the state are being transformed. Thank you for joining me.
Amy Vansen: Thank you for having me.
Saliby: Can you give us an overview of the state of malls statewide?
Vansen: They're everywhere, right? It goes from very large malls like Fairlane in Dearborn or Lakeside Mall in Sterling Heights to dead Kmarts, for lack of a better word, very large big boxes, which 20 years ago we were all shopping at. We were all shopping at that Circuit City or that Best Buy and that Kmart, and now they are sitting because we just don't shop the same.
Saliby: What are the challenges of taking malls, these huge retail spaces or these former big box stores, and turning them into something else?
Vansen: So, there are challenges because I think there is this loss, right, that we are all feeling community-wide, right? Things have just changed a whole lot over the last 20 years, and I think there is this nostalgia of how we used to shop, even though we've all decided collectively we don't really want to shop that way anymore. But it's that it was always this retail place, and it's there.
I think there is this nostalgia of how we used to shop, even though we've all decided collectively we don't really want to shop that way anymore.
So what as a community, do you decide is going to go there instead? We need a lot more housing in Michigan, that is something that we are seeing. If you've been in the housing market, you know it's not your mother's or your big sister's housing market anymore. So, housing is certainly an option, and then just smaller retail spaces, restaurants and so forth. So, I think the challenge with it is really, as a community, is sitting down, and it can be hard when local government doesn't have the resources that it has had for a number of years for a lot of reasons, to be able to take a breath and sit down and figure out what as a neighborhood, as a community, does that space, what do we want it to look like?
And then figuring out the tools, whether it's your tax increment financing or some grants or foundation money to really stack the financing, to be able to make it more affordable for a developer to develop that space, that place where you want it to. So, those are the challenges with it.
These are really ready-made sites for development potential.
The really great thing about these spaces is that the infrastructure, all that really expensive stuff, is already in the ground. So, you've got your storm water. You've got your sanitary. You've got your water. You have utilities. That is just so expensive if you're trying to go out beyond where there is that sort of thing. So, these are really ready-made sites for development potential. We've got the roads. There's probably a really big road next to it that can handle the traffic of most anything that is going to be put on this site. So, those are really the opportunities with these sites.
Saliby: How are communities actually working with these developers to find solutions for these spaces that maybe work for the community itself?
Vansen: So, I know that in Sterling Heights with the Lakeside Mall redevelopment, they have a corridor improvement authority, and so they are working using that TIF money and how TIF works in Michigan, to help defray those costs and help make the financing pencil for that development. And because Lakeside is so large, it is going to be a multiple year, staged project. So, that's one example.
Another example is in Waterford Township, Michigan. They really worked with a developer, a business owner that was going to work on a vacant Kmart site and wanted to work with the community and figure out what could work here. And so, they've divided up this Kmart into various businesses that are forward-facing.
So, it's not something that's really sort of this big, hulking warehouse that used to be a more dynamic space, so it has that dynamic retail environment, forward-facing. But then, because it's such a large site, it can have some warehouse stuff that wholesale that isn't as forward-facing.
Saliby: To end our conversation, is there something new you learned editing this edition of the magazine that you think other people might not realize when it comes to these retail spaces?
When a developer does come along, you know exactly what the neighborhood's willing to tolerate, rather than having it be this back and forth in this contentious five-hour meeting, and the developer walks away, throws up his hands, and you're still left with this really sad space.
Vansen: I think what I learned from this is how important it is for local government, and it can be it's really difficult because there is not a lot of resources with local government because of Headlee amendment and Proposal A and just there's a lot of cost implications with this, but I think it is really so important for local government, if at all possible, to take a breath, if you have a space like that.
And whether it's a mall or a vacant big box and really take a minute to have some community engagement with the neighborhood and the community at large on what that space ought to be, so that when a developer does come along, you know exactly what the neighborhood's willing to tolerate, rather than having it be this back and forth in this contentious five-hour meeting, and the developer walks away, throws up his hands, and you're still left with this really sad space.
Saliby: Amy Vansen is the editor of Michigan Planner. Thank you for joining us.
Vansen: Thank you.
This conversation has been edited for clarity and conciseness.
